Tarot Talk: The Gnarly Questions About Reading Tarot
This was a fun interview to be a part of. Some great questions asked that took us on a deep dive into some childhood memories, ethics and ways of working with the Tarot. Interviewed by Renee Gee for the Tarot Guild of Australia, this was their first episode of Tarot Talk. Below is part of the description the TGA used to introduce this interview;
"Karen is well-known in the Tarot community and has been a member of the Tarot Guild for many years. Karen is also a member of the TGA Committee and has been reading Tarot for over 25 years. She is a wonderful teacher, practitioner, author and the creator of the Tarot Oils™. We talk to Karen about her first memory of Tarot and her personal views on an array of topics and ‘gnarly’ questions we sometimes don’t get a chance to discuss and demystify." If you are interested in Tarot and would like to become a member of the Tarot Guild of Australia, do check out their website here.
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Episode Transcript
00:35.97
Interviewer
Welcome to the very first episode of the Tarot Talk podcast. My name's Renee and today's special guest is Karen Seinor. Karen is a professional member of the Tarot Guild of Australia.
She's multi-talented, hugely experienced in the world of tarot, aromatherapy, counselling. She's also a published author, with many, many other talents. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome Karen to the show.
Karen, welcome. Thank you, Renee. I'm so pleased to be here chatting with you. I'm looking forward to it. I think we'll have a lot of fun. Yeah, I think it's going to be wonderful. This is our very first episode, so bear with us, guys, if we're not quite polished just yet, but we will get there.
And look, this is a chance for us to get to know all the members of the Tarot Guild. So if you enjoy this program by the end of it, reach out to us. We'd love to have you part of the show. If like to be interviewed, please just get in touch with our committee and the website tarotguild.org and you can participate. So this is not just for celebrities or anyone fancy. We welcome you all.
How are you going, Karen? How's the weather been in New South Wales? You're based up there. I am. I'm on the border of Victoria and New South Wales, in Albury, and we have had buckets of rain, absolutely buckets.
01:54.08
Speaker
I think we had 60 mil in 24 hours or something. Mad. It has been crazy, but it's always nice and refreshing, isn't it? It's good that the the farmers get their water and and the land continues to grow the spring season.
Yes, I think the farmers might have had a little bit too much, but I know in my garden, things are looking very sprightly and I was lucky enough to get it all mowed before the rain came in, so I'm pretty happy.
02:19.50
Interviewer
Oh, there's nothing worse, is it, having a soggy lawn. Okay, so Karen, you have achieved so many things and I am blessed to be also part of the committee as of this year, 2021, so I'm new to the team. But you've been around for a while and I’d just love this interview to share some of your secrets, some of your passions, things that you've achieved, and for people who are interested in Tarot, what it can bring and how and it can enrich their lives. So I guess I want to just sort of kick off and ask you a fairly basic question and that is, what's your first memory of Tarot and what made you walk the path of the esoteric?
03:02.99
Speaker
Oh now that's a great question Renee. My very first memory of the Tarot is not warm and fuzzy actually. So one of the things I had to do when I really was drawn to it was I had to deal with that. So cutting to the chase, as a little girl, i remember, and I probably would have been six or seven, I remember my Mum had a lovely friend,whose name was Maureen, if you can believe that, I remember that, and she was a really good Tarot reader. Now, she used to read the cards with the normal playing cards, and I recall her doing that at our kitchen table, and my mother's face dropped and she looked absolutely petrified. Evidently what Maureen told her was that either her brother or her father were going to die. So my mum was freaked out by that and I remember that feeling of fear. It sounds like a terrible thing to say actually on a Tarot podcast, but it's really stuck with me. I knew that the Tarot was pretty powerful as I got older because of my mum's reaction, and, of course, what actually happened was that both her father and her brother passed. It was pretty intense. And the biggest thing, I guess, apart from that, was that Maureen actually went to a psychiatric ward about a week after she did that reading for my Mum. So in my memory, this is what stuck in my head, was if you play with those cards, bad things happen and you will get locked up. That's what my little girl brain said.
So years later, when I was really drawn to psychic things and I was going to healing circles and things like that, I was actually told by a lady that I really respected, she said, Karen, you've got so much psychic energy around you and she did this drawing and there was all this purple. She said to me, you must go and buy some Tarot cards. I think I had the same look on my face that my mother did when she had the reading from Maureen. One of horror and shock. But she said to me, no, they're not bad. So off I went. I went off to the Crystal Heart shop in Carlton and I bought this tarot deck called the Servants of Light. I'm standing in this shop going, “What the hell am I doing?” But I picked it because Servants of Light, it can't be evil, right?
I took those cards home and I played with them a little bit and then I parked them. But I did start getting them out every now and then started to play and then, of course, later on I studied esoteric healing and during that time, one of the things that happened in a session was that I was given to begin working with the Tarot.
So that's a long answer to a short question probably.
Interviewer
No, it's fantastic. Look, I think it's important to, know, keep things real and, you know, because everybody does have real lives and real experiences and and that's sort of part of getting to know ah people who are part of, you know, the Guild and, and the people that we we love to spend time with and learn from. And those things are really important because there are there are some, and you know, it's good to demystify things is what I'm trying to say.
And when you can demystify it, it makes tarot more accessible. People don't fear the tarot. But, look, it always has been a little ah quirky in terms of what can happen in a tarot reading. That actually leads me into a couple of other questions, which is great that you've answered it in the way that you did. How much value do you place on our psychic ability as a reader?
07:14.58
Speaker
Oh, that is a very good question and a little bit of a loaded question, I think, Renee, because there's really two, well, I guess there's three styles of reading from my perspective.
There's people who work totally intuitively and simply use the cards as a prop.
There's people who learn the meanings of the cards, and they're working very much in the left brain.
Then there's those people who combine the two. And my sense is that it's the combination of the two that really creates the best readers.
To only work intuitively, we are... potentially at risk, and it's like my Mum's friend Maureen, there was stuff going on for her and there's no doubt that she got very clear information ah about certain events, but the ability to use that information in a way that's appropriate and it doesn't necessarily fit with one psychic ability. Just because you're a psychic doesn't mean that you're operating in the right or from the right plane, shall we say.
I think intuition is good. I think psychic ability is really valuable, but you don't have to have those things to read the tarot.
08:59.54
Interviewer
Correct. Because when people read the tarot, they often think that they're reading the fundamental messages that embody the cards, like you said, the left side, yet tend not to talk about the mystical aspect of what can occur in a reading.
Can you share with us any moments that you may have experienced which can't be explained to the naked eye without sort of being unethical, obviously, because there are ethics involved? Yeah.
Have you had a situation where you may have imparted knowledge like Maureen did at some point? You could see something. um be you Where do you hold, withdraw, and where do you share? Where's that line that you sort of create for yourself and and your clients?
09:31.81
Speaker
Yeah, that that's a good one too. Oh, you're great with the questions. I love it. Sorry. No, no, no, no. Don't be sorry. It's good. I mean, we've got to ask the gnarly questions because when we're working with the Tarot, we're working with real people, real situations.
It's not black and white. And we've got to come back to our own... our own ethics, our own values, I think. to To answer the question, um what's popped into my mind it's a very, well, sadly, it's a little bit funny and a little bit twisted as well. That's something about my sense of humour, ah perhaps.
I was doing a reading. ah lived in Hawaii for a while and I lived on Oahu. It was quite a long time ago, but I had sisters who wanted to come and have a reading and they wanted to come together. And I'd never really liked to do that, but I was pretty new there. I was really eager to get my name out and get known. So I agreed.
I crossed my own boundary for a start. Never good. So I had these two women there at the kitchen table and what came up when I did the reading for the first sister was, oh, my God, your husband is having an affair and it was actually he was having the affair with the sister that was right there.
11:05.57
Interviewer
Holy crap. What do you do with that? Awkward. Extremely awkward.
Speaker
Yes. I didn't want a bloodbath in my kitchen.
Interviewer
Oh, my Lord.
See, this is why i ask the gnarly questions. It can happen.
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. It totally happened.
So I was stuck because i I kind of pride myself on speaking truth, but with heart. And I am a bit of a hard hitter. People expect that from me now. That's really why people come back and have readings from me they say, because I don't really pull punches, but, you know, with love. So there I was. and I actually needed to tell her that there was something going on with the relationship. But I just wasn't prepared to tell her that it was with her sister. There's no way I could do that. So i evaded, that part, I just didn't share that particular piece of information, but I did say to her, you know, you need to look at the relationship, look at what's happening around you. I gave her that sort of information which was enough to get her started. The sister was a little bit trepidatious when she had her reading but I didn't mention it I worried about it afterwards to be honest, had I done the right thing? But I feel like I did. Yeah.
12:42.06
Interviewer
Yeah. And that's the thing. It's sometimes a bit of tough love, um you know, iron fist with a velvet glove, kind of ah firm, but fair kind of information because people will come to you for truth and they come to you for clarity.
And if you have that level of intuition and and you do receive messages and you can read things that are actually happening and you know that they're happening it's balls to bones sometimes you just know it in your bones it's there um that's where the ethical you know path comes into it because we we are responsible for for people's lives at times and you you can't send them down a path which is fake or just for fun or you're dealing with real issues. And so that's a really good um example of um certain situations as readers we we do come across.
So thank you for sharing that. it's quite all right i've just thought of another one as you were talking renee you know we we think we we actually hold the position of enormous power for a lot of people they put us into a place where you know they put us on a pedestal though we as though we are absolute truth seers and knowers which in many cases we are but everybody has their own um you know, choice is always relevant.
14:07.26
Speaker
It's not just because Tarot. Sometimes think we're going to go off and do a fun thing, like I have done a couple of gigs, and you'll love this, in a gypsy tent at the local City Council. They employed me to go and do tarot readings. They made this gorgeous silk and tent. I actually dressed up and I did the whole gig, the big earrings, and it was really fun. And I thought, oh, i'm going to go off and have lovely fun and do these fun readings.
14:39.91
Speaker
Holy moly. Mm-hmm. Wow. It was some of the toughest, gruntiest questions. um i think the third 15-minute reading I did, somebody came in and their child had a brain tumour.
Yeah, yeah. and And I'm mean this glorious tent dressed up, you know, ready to have fun and do lighthearted readings. Wow. It just hits you from the least...
You know, it's like, okay, this is serious. And boom, you've got to be right there. Yeah. Anyway, no more cheeky stories because we don't want to frighten any of the potential. No, that's okay.
15:20.11
Interviewer
I also, you know, this interview is is all also about, you know, your your history and and your experiences, but I had a similar experience um with one of the first party sort of situations I did.
15:34.71
Speaker
And, you know, people hear the word party and they think it's all going to be fun. And usually it is. But um again, we just, you know, circle back to the fact that people have lives and, you know, they they have real issues and and sometimes they're not positive. um And especially, you know, your three of swords will come down or other cards will just go bang, bang, one after the other. And you just think, you know, this is crazy. But, you know, it's part of being a professional coach.
16:00.74
Interviewer
You leave the client always feeling uplifted with a great course of action, possible um you know positive um positivity. And I think that's sort of where we have to draw our own inner strength from to to allow the other person to to feel like they're going to be okay and things are what they are.
You can't beat around the bush, but at the same time, um give them that sense of support and um you know and counsel. But as a counsellor yourself, um do you have any tips for budding readers or even experienced readers on taking on um a counselling course? And, you know, you've interwoven that sort of skill set with the tarot, obviously, over many years.
What advice do you have for people out there who's are thinking about tarot and maybe sort of stepping into the world of counselling or taking a, you know, a basic course? Do you think it's a good thing?
16:57.81
Speaker
I think it's a fantastic thing. I really do. It helps you so much with your readings. In fact, I was a reader for a very long time before I studied counselling. I think actually reading the tarot helps me to work in that counselling role. But, yeah, definitely for people who, as readers, it just helps you with your questions. It helps you to know the kind of questions too. Well, I guess we don't really ask questions in the tarot, but the way you use your language, how you word things, how you feedback back to people in a way that moves them forward positively in a in a strong way so that they leave feeling empowered Yeah, it's great for that.
17:48.65
Interviewer
Yeah, I think it's great because, I mean, you've got so many different interests and and things that you do. You are a published author as well. i just want to talk about a couple of books you've written. You've got Tarot Foundations for The Journey. That was a while ago. I think that came out 2015. It's according to the image.
Speaker
Yes, okay, gee, I thought I'd actually pulled that one down.
Interviewer
Yeah. You can still get it as an e-book. It's still out there as an e-book. Yeah, okay. And says, a thorough introduction to the tarot with meanings for all 78 cards, foundational tarot spreads, how to care for your cards, picking the right deck, the court cards, tarot healing as a healing and more.
Do you want to talk about Tarot as Healing? What did you mean by that in your book?
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes. I... Well, I studied as an esoteric healer before I actually went off and did my studies with Anne Shotter, she was my very first tarot teacher. So i actually see the tarot as a healing modality in its own right.
There's so many layers in the cards. When you look at them, you know, the story behind the colour, the esoteric symbols, When you bring, and i mean, especially if you're using cards that have been created with a really genuine healing intent, that is infused into those items, shall we say.
When we do healing work, one of the key things that is happening is the combination of the healers, auric space, their vibrational frequency, and the person receiving the healing. And if you think about it practically, whether you are doing a reading in person or even online with a client, you're sitting opposite that person. And if you imagine yourself sitting on the other side of the tarot table, your chakra systems, the main chakras are actually in line, and the reader or the healer, is actually accessing universal life force energy. They're bringing that in and they're making it available to the client, additional energy, so that they can actually heal themselves. It's like putting fuel into a car. yeah The person receiving the reading or the healing, whichever the case may be, and I don't think they're very different, um always has the ability to heal themselves. We know that in truth, in a reading, ah genuinely believe that I cannot tell anybody something they don't already intrinsically know. They have all the knowledge.
In a reading, what's happening is we put those cards out and the client is seeing them, the colour is impacting on them, the esoteric symbols are working on their on their psyche, on their energy field. They're getting the the additional energy of this combination. There's also the the lineage of all of the tarot teachers and practitioners that have gone before the reader.
So in a way, you can think about a yogic tradition. …In that world they talk about my teacher and the energy of my teacher. So you're tapping into a very long line. I think there's so many things that happen in a reading that makes it a healing experience.
21:41.46
Interviewer
Yeah, absolutely. It is so multifaceted and so subconscious and so you know intrinsic, and you know like you said, you would never sort of tell somebody something that you intrinsically knew that they didn't already know themselves, and tarot is a way to the bring those issues or those feelings or that knowledge to the surface. It's sort of an opportunity to look at those cards, like you said, acknowledging the colours, acknowledging symbols, all of those things become activated between yeah the the reader and the client or the reader and the person who's who's sitting with you.
And so I totally understand that explanation. It's really it's such a broad question and it's not answered simply. But it does, I think that's the mysticism of tarot and why I love it. I personally love it so much, and people who do love tarot just can never get enough, it never ends. It's continual. It's almost infinite in terms of what it can bring to enrich our lives every single day. You know, no two days are ever the same.
22:58.07
Speaker
Exactly, and it it is infinite. When we look at the archetype, so when we look at, you know, The Chariot, for example, the warrior archetype, and yeah most people who study the tarot, you know, they veer off and look at Jung's archetypes. It's such a perfect, you know, line-up.
The Empress is a nice, easy one for us to talk about. When we look at the Empress archetype, the mother, the great mother. Any person can think about the mother and they get an image, they have an experience and they can align with that.
i always imagine in my mind that there's this great, big, beautiful cloud up there in the universe and this idea of the mother is up there, and every single one of us, when we when we tune into the archetype of the great mother, the Empress card, we're drawing from that. So there's this incredible pool of knowledge and information, skills, abilities that we access, and this is another way that the tarot is healing because we can access resources and skills that we don't necessarily have ourselves if required in this moment in time, and we can use them by tapping into the tarot archetype to help us achieve, move through an obstacle.
Interviewer
Yeah, it's fabulous. We can elicit that from the card. Yeah, yeah. I have been wanting to learn more and more about astrology. Yeah, over the last year or two in particular. I mean, my interest in tarot has been since a very early age. My mother had a deck and that's another story for another time. But since then, you know even before I actually understood how to read the tarot cards, I and understood sun signs like the Bible. It was just like every time I would meet someone, I would know, ask them what their sun sign was or when was your birthday. um And that would be my sort of esoteric religion for want of a better word um and how I have navigated myself through life with relationships, with people at work, with, you know, family members or whoever, you know, crosses your path. It's always a nice thing to fall back on and sort of think, okay, I know where this person is coming from, I can understand their point of view and of course, when you get to learn and and study the tarot, those things are interwoven, you know, those cards have symbology based on the planets and Venus and all of those other things.
How much emphasis do you put on with astrology and your knowledge of astrology, for example, and where you incorporate that? Do you incorporate that into your readings?
Speaker
No, it's not it's not an area that I've really gone into. But you know who is really very good at that is some one of the ladies on the committee, Molly Talbot for example. I actually get her newsletter and I love it. It's really cool. I tend to go more with the vegetable kingdom, believe it or not. So my gig with the tarot - I look at the plants that align with it. That's always been a bit of a thing for me. Oh, that was one of my first decks, actually. Have you got the herbal tarot? I used to. i don't have it now.
Interviewer
Yeah That's a good one. It's, um yeah, very interesting. I think the High Priestess is aligned with the peony flower and um the ginger for the hierophant or something. It's really interesting with the plant world. I just wanted to ask you that because as a reader myself, I tend to, you know, weave that into my readings also, because the archetypes of those particular, ah the major arcana in particular, are aligned with certain planets and and how that actually resonates in which parts and time of year you're actually doing the reading as well. But we don't have to dive into that because it is super complex and can be confusing to new people to the world of Tarot.
But it definitely is something. I think we recently had a presentation as part of the Guild with Sarah Gilbert, and she introduced astrology and weaves that into tarot, which I found was really interesting.
Yeah, look, it's it's a great thing. So one of the things, if if people are ah good at that, if they if they have a ah base of knowledge around astrology, the zodiac, then it's wonderful to mix that in. I think that's the beauty of it. The tarot is so big and it's so broad in one sense that you can interweave these other tools into it and it can actually help the client.
Speaker
Yeah. One of the things I do do is I do the life cards for clients, and I find that's really good for my students as well. So, I mean, there's a for each of the sun signs, you know, there's a tarot card. So that's a great thing to know because it really wows clients because most people do know what their star sign is That's right. And I often sometimes use it as a, you know, um an introduction. You can ask them, you know, when's your birthday? And, oh, this is your card. You've appeared in your own reading. You know, if a love card pops up and they're a Gemini, you can sort of say, oh, look, you're at the centre of your reading. This is, you know, it's going to be quite, you know, revolving around you yourself. It's very much egocentric for want of a better, description.
Interviewer
Well, that's interesting. But you have you have so many other interests. What are your other interests and different modalities of working? You work with crystals. You've also done another book with tarot and aromatherapy. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yes, I love tarot and aromatherapy. That's actually, in a sense, it's what got me really involved in the tarot because I was doing the esoteric healing, got the thing about the tarot, and then I was getting woken up in the middle of the night with these smells. Then I'd come up and I'd go, oh I thought I was dreaming, but it kept happening. Eventually I figured it out… In the end, I ended up with these 22 essential oil blends it took me a while, but then I realised that there was one for each of the tarot cards, the major arcana tarot cards.
So I had this product, and and this is way back, 25 years ago. so aromatherapy was very new. There was only one essential oil company functioning in Australia at that time and I was selling essential oils at markets and I sort of built up this range of 34 oils. Back in those days, I called it Interlace Essentials, and had this really cool logo with the chakras and all that goes into the healing as part of that. Yeah eventually I realised I had this product then I came across Mary Greer's work, which is beautiful. She's written a book called The Essence of Magic. Highly recommend her books. So I went off and I did 12 months of study on the Tarot. That's what made me go study it is because I had these Tarot Oil blends. And, yeah, they're actually designed for healing work.
31:20.32
Interviewer
So how did you, for example, let's pick a card. I'll just pick one, um the Lover's card. a Gemini. Yes. How would you ascertain what oils would be featured as part of the Lover's card, a tarot oil?
31:37.17
Speaker
Well, it was all channeled, Renee. Right. i didn't consciously figure this out. I was actually given all this. That's what the guy and the smells were in the middle of the night.
31:49.91
Interviewer
Right. So are you, Clairaudient? Yes. Or clairsentient, I beg your pardon. Is it clairsentient smell? … Fascinating. That is brilliant. Because, you know, as I said, well i just said, you know, I love herbs and I'm interested in and that sort of thing as well. But...to sort of consciously sit down and figure that out. That's what I thought. Maybe, you know, you've sort of done that side of it as well, but it was all clearly through the divine.
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely was. It was after they were given that I then, you know, the brain activated and I went, well, how come it's that? And so, for example, for you with the lovers, you've got lavender, ginger and rose are the three essential oils.
And it was interesting. I had to get, because remember, that's a long time ago. So getting essential oils back then was amazing. not like it is now. I ended up having to buy them from growers like I bought my lavender direct from Essential Oils Tasmania farm back then. These days you can't do any of that. And weird and wonderful things happened because this is back in the olden days, you know, where there was actually an operator that you could ring and - no one will remember that probably.
I actually this one day, I was looking for this particular essential oil, I freaking didn't know how to find it, and I rang the operator and I had this long conversation with the operator on the phone who ended up doing this massive search for me and found me all these phone numbers of people, of um companies both in Australia and overseas … and so it was it was amazing. Yeah. Just incredible. So anyway, so for you, for lavender, for example, the reason that's in is for balancing the masculine and feminine within, and it actually spiritualises daily life and it helps deepen the meditative state. The ginger, that actually raises energy, magic, passion, sexual energy, all energy is brought up, it works on the sacral centre, it's to do with the element of fire, there’s courage, confidence, power, and it works specifically on the emotional body. And as a Gemini, you'll know that, you know, the greatest lessons happen in relationships.
So, and of course, that's all hitting the emotional body. And the obvious one that made sense was Rose.
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah. That's so beautiful because we've just moved into our new house here out in Regional Vic as well. And it was only over the last few weeks just as spring sort of arrived. I surrounded the house with lavender plants and I always have ginger in the fridge. And our next lot of planting we're going to do, which we can't do until winter next year, we're going to put roses around the around the house as well. They were like sort of my top three things. Wonderful. I'm so glad. I'm thinking, wow, this is uncanny. Then again, it's not because you know what you need.
35:27.44
Speaker
So interesting, isn't it?
Interviewer
Absolutely fascinating. Yeah. we could We could talk for hours and hours. I've still got a few more questions for you, though.
Speaker
Yeah, go for it. Go for it.
Interviewer
You're holding masterclasses in 2022. You've got a website, … you are doing classes. I believe they're accessible to everybody because you are doing them online… and you're calling them, you've got a couple of courses on your website. You've got the introductory tarot course and that sort of goes down into a few different things. But then you've also got another tab on the menu that says masterclasses. These are one these are focusing on major arcana energies and, and teachings around those one particular cards. And they're starting off, for example, you've got the temperance healing from the past on the 30th of January. You want to talk about your masterclasses and what they embody and what we can expect?
Speaker
Okay. So interestingly enough, the last two are not on the major arcana because how I determine, you know I'm a tarot reader, how do I work out what I'm going to teach?I get the cards out, I shuffle, and I ask, okay, what's the class for the first new moon for the year? That's how I get what what we're teaching. Right. Okay. So I've always, because I've, I've worked, you know, I live in a regional area and until relatively recently, I worked full time in my own practice, working as a hypnotherapist and a counsellor. So for many years, I had this ah ‘story’ that I was running that I had to keep the tarot going. and my paying work, you know, like that other, the official out there person, are separate.
And that's, I tried very hard to do that and because I was under the impression that people would find that was problematic for them.
And so I didn't, and I had a bit of a blockage around that. I think I had a fear about it, which is quite funny because I used to drive a car around that had tarot cards and massive tarot cards, sign written all over it. So, like, you know how paradoxical is that?
38:20.38
Interviewer
I will include that photo as part of the blog, I think, so people know. It's great. It's just mental, isn't it? You drive that car and then you think, oh, no, I have to keep these two worlds separate. Like, it's quite funny.
38:33.22
Speaker
There goes the woo-woo woman. There she goes. She's woo-woo. Exactly. Exactly. Funny story actually about, um I'll just digress for a moment. I pulled up in the car park, ah no, no, not in the car park into a petrol station and I'm filling up there, you know, minding my own beeswax, I think I'd just done some groceries, in the Tarot mobile and this young guy and his mate get out of their plumber's van, which is also sign written, and he makes a smart-ass comment to me.
I looked at him completely confused because I forget, you know, I used to forget that I had that on there. I was just living my life. And I looked at it and then I looked at him and I said, are you a plumber?
And he goes, yeah. I said, yeah, that's what you've got on your car. I said, mine, I'm a tarot reader. It's my business. And he looked all confused because he thought he was going to like, intimidate me or freak me out or i'd be embarrassed. But I just went, boom, straight back at him.
And he, almost tucked his tail between his legs and whizzed off to pay for his petrol. It was so funny. But, yeah, amazing. I would highly recommend that all tarot readers put signage on their cars.
You get an amazing amount of business doing that. But anyway, so back to the Tarot Masterclasses. So after much performance and ridiculousness, during the past year, I've actually, you know, stepped away from lots of things, played in the garden, and just been with myself, spent time working on me.
And suddenly one day I just went, what the heck have I been crapping on about? These things go perfectly together. And that's what the Tarot Masterclasses are about.
It's really about using tarot card to go deep with the self. Hmm.
So what's really going to happen is we'll come together in a group. Yes, there'll be a teaching on the card so that we are framing up the work.
And then we're going to use that to explore our own inner selves. You know, for example, you know, the angel within, you know, how we um how we come through the fire and how we rebuild ourselves.
So there'll be processes and um meditation and discussion around that so that the people who participate in that masterclass are actually going to experience the healing energy of being with temperance.
So it's really like, I don't i didn't quite know how to term this up for you because it's still... It's still landing in the physical, I guess, at at this moment.
Because sometimes that happens. I get given this is what you're going to do This is what it's going to look like. And then the details come after. I'm still waiting for some of the details to come.
But, yeah, so... Does this make sense? Am I am i explaining it?
Interviewer
Yeah, no, you are. I think, you know, all the archetypes do have essential, you know, meanings and embody certain characteristics and how we can apply them to our own lives is I think where you're going with this and how we can... yeah utilize the energy of of those archetypes and apply them to our everyday lives ….
42:30.78
Speaker
You know, and that's what it's all about. it's It's sort of honing in on your own inner strength, honing in on your own, um tapping into your own fortune, your own softness, your own, you know, exactly but's elements that these cards bring us.
42:46.15
Speaker
That's true. Now, things like, um I mean, because I've i've worked as a therapist for so long, I'm pretty used to the core problems, you know, and that one on the Hierophant, Be Your Own Guru, that's a core issue that comes up for people.
… We are always looking for the other to solve the problem. And I've done it myself. I'm sure you've done it too. We're all on this plane doing the same gig. Looking for teachers. Yes, we we think it's out there. And just in the last few years, i made the same boo-boo again, you know wanting to find my tribe, wanting to find a place where I belong…
I was never quite right. I didn't have the right something or other, you know, and it was a challenge. I found that I never was quite right for that. And then I went off and I studied meditation. I did this whole preparation, three months of vegan this and meditating bloody four times a day at ridiculous hours and studying lots of books. It was was fantastic.
I go off to India, exactly 20 years after my first visitation there, and I'm at this, you know, there with the guru, and I've never been a guru type person before, and, you know, expecting some major teachings. And with no disrespect at all, I spent all this time doing all this work, lots of money to get there and not be at work and whatnot, and the lesson that I learnt is, Karen, you must be your own guru. It's not out there. i didn't actually learn anything much new. Mm-hmm.
45:14.26
Interviewer
All that work, all that time, but it was a really important lesson. It's the 20-year judgement turnaround, that 20 years between you did it last time and then you came back to do it again, like the judgement card, which is what Anne has has taught always. Yes. I remember that stuck with me.
45:35.60
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's that's a classic example of that, absolutely. And, look, it’s been, and I think it's hilarious how we we tend to just, yeah we're living in our own skin and yet we knew it all along.
And then you sort of realise you just have to have that that aha moment, that light bulb that finally clicks and you think, I've got it. Like I've been here the whole time. This is what I've always known and now I'm still the same person. You know, I don't have to be another kind of person to be accepted or, you know, feel confident or whatever it might be. But it's actually at the end of the day, it's learning how to live in your own skin, you know, and the more time that you spend with yourself, know, whether it be as the hermit or the hierophant, I think you get to understand who you are and the bits you like, the bits you don't like about yourself.
46:35.31
Interviewer
But the more you can learn about yourself, the more you can learn and live with others as well. Because as you said, I think a lot of people sort of tend to constantly live outward to find those answers, to look for those, you know, the sense of belonging, whereas if you can belong with yourself like the monks do and they live on, you know, and in in isolation, that's where you're going to actually understand yourself so much more and actually the answers are within yourself. The kingdom is within.
47:08.08
Speaker
That's right. And that's that's where the tarot really comes in and its so incredibly valuable. And look, these masterclasses, I've had a fabulously messy life and I continue to have one.
And this is where the sharing comes from. It's not because I've got it right, it's because I've got it so damn wrong. And what these masterclasses have actually come out of is a new moon tarot circle that I used to do here in person in my regional area.
I live on one side of the river in New South Wales and the venue I used to use was on the other side of the river in Victoria. So during this past two-year period, that was off again on again. So that's why I'm going online to just resolve all that covid related stuff.
48:00.11
Speaker
And the beauty of these classes or these you know gatherings is that we can use things like you know, just the problems that you learn from and the the the wisdom that you gain out of it is is great, but it's not enough. It's how do you anchor that in? And so it's things like, using and NLP processes and all sorts of different tools and techniques that actually make that stuff stick.
Interviewer
that's what That's what comes from from gathering and and sharing in those spaces. Well, I'll be enrolling so you can expect it to complete your class. I'll be there. And I'll also leave links as part of the blog and where this gets posted eventually to for people to access if they want to sign up. So that sounds really exciting and and a great way to kick off 2022. So I'm looking forward to it.
48:54.70
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Renee.
Interviewer
Since you've been a tarot reader and author and a counsellor with so many years of of experience in the realm, what's been your most enjoyable achievement?
Speaker
I don't know about achievement. I think, look, when I first went to my tarot classes in Doncaster back in the day, i sat there absolutely enthralled at the group of people that I was sitting with. So I'm sitting in this classroom and all these people, I just felt like I was such a baby and i was a baby. I was a little chick from Mount Beauty, who you know, a little country town. I knew bugger all. And I was there and all these people had travelled to Europe. They'd been to the Cistine Chapel. They'd done things, one guy had written a book and I sat and they talked about art, and books they'd read. I sat there and I just felt like I was a little kid in the theatre, you know. oh my God, this whole wide world. And I thought, one day i want to be like these people and know stuff. So I think my greatest achievement has has been and is, that I have sat in spaces where where I am the dumbest person in the room and that is an achievement that I want to continue to have where I'm with people who know so much and who are opening doors and windows and turning pages for me. That otally does it for me. That is such a not brilliant answer. I love the experience like, I mean, the Guild, for example, has had some of the most amazing people speak, like... you know, James Wanless, for example, the creator of the Voyager Deck, Rachel Pollack, she was here in Australia but quite a few years ago now. I was lucky enough to go on a tour to Central Australia where she's, the facilitator, you know, and sat in Kings Canyon and did tarot readings and with all these tarot people, and you know, heard amazing people speak,
I've been to the New York Tarot Festival and, yeah just been in the presence of people who really have explored far further. Yeah. I get excited at the thought of it. Absolutely. Let there be more, I say. Let there be more. Well, that's what we're hoping for.
Interviewer
This is our first podcast for Tarot Talk as part of the Tarot Guild of Australia and I'm so honoured that you've been the first person to interview for this fabulous installation, if you want to call it installment, your latest installment as part of the offering. and you're right, you know, part of the reason why I joined as well is to be surrounded by people and honoured to be in the presence of people like yourself and many of the other professional members that we have as part of the Guild.
And it's our journey. It's our, it's out I feel, it's our, um you know, it's our job to to share these these experiences and knowledge with with others and to learn from each other and to welcome anybody and everybody who's interested in tarot because the more we can grow our community, the longer we can sustain the legacy and and keep learning until until whenever, you know. it's That's what it's all about. So sharing is caring. Yeah, and absolutely. it's It's rich and deep. and you Join us, come and be part of this. it's
52:51.44
Speaker
It's such a transformative journey. I mean, I could not imagine ever have enjoying the amount of personal change and nourishment from any other tool than the tarot has given me. It's awesome.
53:09.25
Interviewer
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Karen, I am going to wrap it up. I think this has been such a wonderful interview. Thank you so much for your time this morning. It's been a pleasure to listen to you and I'm sure that our listeners out there are going to enjoy this so so much.
So thank you so much for your time and in joining me for the first Tarot Talk podcast.
Speaker
Thank you, Renee.
Interviewer
If you'd like to be part of the Tarot Talk podcast on the Tarot Guild of Australia website, please get in touch with us.
Our website is tarotguild.org.au. We'd love to hear from you. So until next month, stay safe and thanks for listening.
Note: This episode can be found on the Tarot Guild of Australia websites podcast page here https://www.tarotguildaustralia.com/podcast/episode-1-karen-seinor